We sure would like to hear an honest review of the Safir T-14 from one of our fellow smallbore shooters. If you have a Safir T-14 .410, or know someone who does, encourage them to drop us a line here at smallbore.
The 410 shotgun 45 handgun combination is quite appealing to many people. Firstly, you have the 45 Colt cartridge with its proven ballistics as a hunting and self defense round: “Double Tap” ammo has a 225 grain round that boasts 1117 pounds of muzzle energy and a wopping 1495 fps! As for the .410 shotgun side of things, because the 45 colt round and the 410 Hull are of equal size you can chamber both. The .410 shell loaded with #4-7 birdshot at a close distance can wreak havoc on snakes: both those that crawl and those that do not.
The purpose for writing this article is that some folks have written in wondering what size slug to use in the Taurus or Leinad family of rifled 45/410 pistols. The largest .410 shotgun slug is only .410″ in diameter. The 45 Colt is .451-.454 and therefore you can fire a .410 slug from your Taurus, Rossi, et al., but accuracy will be lousy as will power. The 45 Colt is the slug for this family of .410 shotgun.
Some guys mistakenly believe you can fire a .45 slug from a .410 shotgun – not so. The same principle works in reverse and if you try to fire that .45
Now you can make your own 210 Grain .410 Shotgun Slugs!
***WARNING*** Do not shoot from a choked barrel! Only shoot from a Cylinder Bore shotgun!
Just made a new batch of 410 slugs. 196 grain magnums! Using a slightly different recipe so I will not post it until I know it is safe. I was going out today to shoot but good old New England weather arrived – 6 inches of wet snow! First official day of spring too. O’ well, as the saying goes “Don’t like the weather in New England – just wait an hour it will change.”
Check back tomorrow for some pics as I will shoot in the morning.
To make the .40 cal pumpkin Ball round you will need the following materials:
CCI 209 primers
3″ BPI Hull
Bore Stump Hull
Powder ( I use 15 grains of 2400)
And the following tools:
Organize your materials taking care to have a clean workbench.
Prep your hulls
Cut five 1/8″ X 3/8″ round wads from the cork. These will go over your 15 grains of 2400. Next place one .395 ball, then a borestump wad then another ball – DO NOT COMPRESS BEYOND ENOUGH PRESSURE TO ROLL CRIMP!
Honestly, I could not believe what I was reading. Hoening Big Bore South (HBBS), in collaboration with Hornady, Montana Bullet works, Forster and Lee loading (to name a few) have developed one heck of a .410 slug.
When I first contacted Jim Hoening he sent me a great e-mail response thanking me for my interest and granting permission for this article. His knowledge of the .410 bore, coupled with a great personality, are going to push this company a long ways. Check this out for a .410 deer slug! .370 grains! thats a BEAR load for sure. We are talking 45-70 range now!
But wait – I am only talking about the slug – HBBS slugs are worthless without…a FULLY RIFLED BARREL for the .410 shotgun line. These Barrels are built for the Thompson contender/G2, and Encore rifles from Thompson Center Arms. These barrels have a medium/heavy taper of .810″ and are 24″ in length with a 1/14 twist. Each barrel is delivered to you drilled and tapped for both a scope and fore-end attachment. These barrels are 10 years in the making and if you are looking for .410 slug gun that is fully rifled check out the shot group below left.
Not too shabby is it?! I didn’t think so myself. Having worked up some of my own specialty slugs for my .410 I was duly impressed with the HBBS rifled barrels.
HBBS has done something that I only dreamed of in producing this barrel configuration. Let’s face it, driving an uncrimped .375 grain slug from a cylinder bore should NOT produce adverse pressures – and it doesn’t. Hoening has the scientific data now available for these loads as evidenced by the following quote from their ballistics page:
“Prototype loads for the HBBS 410 Heavy factory load and the HBBS 410 Youth load have been laboratory tested and have been found to be within SAAMI specs for 410 bore chamber pressure. It is now a scientifically proven fact, believe it or not! These same tests show very consistent velocities from round to round, another contributing factor to the extreme accuracy.”
Great job Jim and staff – this has been a long time coming!
Check them out @ http://hoeningbigboresouth.com and please let them know you heard it first here @ smallbore.
I have used .410 Brenneke slugs for two years now and find them to be extremely accurate. 3″ shotgroups at, ready for this, 75yards! That was from my Mossberg 183K with the accu-choke on “Modified”. The Brenneke is a 1/4 oz., 3″ Magnum slug load that boasts a “Practical Sight in Range” of 88 yds!
The Brenneke slug was invented by the German gun and ammunition designer Wilhelm Brenneke(1865–1951) in 1898. The Brenneke slug is a solid lead slug with fins cast onto the outside. The fins do not impart spin, but serve to lessen the contact area within the bore, therefore increasing velocity. A plastic, felt or cellulose fiber wad attached to the base remains after firing. This wad serves both as a gas seal and as a form of drag stabilization. Similar in theory to the Foster Slug with it’s hollow base and “Weight forward” design. But Since the Brenneke slug is solid, rather than hollow, the Brenneke will generally have less deformation on impact and will provide deeper penetration.
At the pit today I shot two Brenneke slugs from my Mossberg 500. The aiming point was the “D” in “FORD” that was on an old tailgate from a Ford pickup truck. At 40 yards, from a full-choke, and with only the bead sights, I placed two shots within 2 inches of each other. The surprise was that the tailgate lay against the sand pile at a 60 degree angle and those slugs tore one inch holes in the Metal on impact and severely dented and split the other side of the tail-gate. Why was this so surprising? The tail-gate was from a late sixties or early seventies pick-up! So I would gauge the metal at 18 or better ( I am not a metalist or an auto buff so if someone can give a better idea of the metal thickness it will help). Therefore I suspect that a Brenneke would EASILY travel through most vehicle doors today when struck at a decent angle of trajectory. I will post some pic’s tomorrow of that tail-gate when I return for a second round of shooting. This time with my 148 grain slugs being pushed with 11grains of Red-Dot.
Many shotgun slugs are designed to be stable when fired from a smoothbore barrel, which lacksthe rifling normally used tostabilizethe projectile. The simplest shotgun slug is a round ball, often called a pumpkin ball or pumpkinshot. Since it is symmetricon all axis, the round ball will not significantly deviate from its path if ittumbles. A shotgun firing a round ball is similar inperformance toa smoothbore musket, and the restriction of the spherical shape limits thesectional density possiblefor a leadprojectileof a given bore diameter.
To obtain higher sectional density and better penetration, an elongated slug is needed, and a method must be provided to prevent the slug from tumbling. Foster slugs are designed with a deep cup in the back, so that the centre of mass is moved forward. The forward mass of the slug helps keep it stable, and will tend to keep the slug moving point first.
Many Foster slugs are also rifled. Rifled slugs have what looks like rifling cast into the surface, Contrary to popular belief the rifling does not provide any spin. These cast ridges allow the slug to be safely swaged down when fired through a choke.
A variation on the Foster design is the Brenneke slug, which uses a solid lead rifled projectile with an attached plastic, felt, or cellulose fibre wad that provides drag stabilization. Brenneke slugs are more suited for dangerous game, as the solid slug is less prone to deformation than the hollow Foster type.
Sabot slugs are generally designed to be fired from a special rifled shotgun barrel. Sabot slugs are smaller than the bore diameter, and offer significant advantages in external ballistics with the reduced drag. Some shotgun slugs also use fins or a lightweight plastic portion in the rear to provide stability from smooth bores, and may be designed to work with or without sabots.
Shotgun slugs intended for use in smoothbore barrels need to be made out of very soft lead alloys or have a compressible sabot, as they must be able to fit through the restrictive choke present in most shotgun barrels. Even so, it is not recommended to fire slugs through very constrictive chokes, as the effort of compressing the slug will at the least damage the end of the barrel effectively reducing the degree of choke, and at worst significantly raise the pressure within the barrel to cause a burst or explosion.
The Foster slug, invented by Karl Foster in 1931, is a type of shotgun slug designed to be fired through a smoothbore shotgun barrel. The defining characteristic of the Foster slug is the deep hollow in the rear, which places the centre of mass very near the tip of the slug, much like a shuttlecock. If the slug begins to tumble in flight, drag will tend to push the slug back into straight flight. This gives the Foster slug stability and allows for accurate shooting out to ranges of about 50 – 70 yards.
Foster slugs may also have rifling, which consists of eleven or twelve fins either cast or swaged on the outside of the slug. Contrary to popular belief these fins actually impart no spin on the slug as it travels through the air.
The actual purpose of the fins is to allow the slug to be safely swaged down when fired through a choked shotgun barrel, although accuracy will suffer when such a slug is fired through chokes tighter than improved cylinder, with a cylinder choke being recommended for best use.
As with all shotgun slugs it is possible to fire Foster slugs through rifled slug barrels, but if doing so leading of the rifling and barrel becomes a great problem necessitating regular cleaning to maintain any degree of accuracy.
The Brenneke slug is similar in appearance to a rifled Foster slug. The Brenneke slug was developed by the famous German gun and ammunition designer Wilhelm Brenneke (1865 – 1951) in 1898. The original Brenneke slug is a solid lead projectile with fins cast onto the outside, much like a modern rifled Foster slug. There is a plastic, felt or cellulose fibre wad attached to the base that remains attached after firing. This wad serves both as a gas seal and as a form of drag stabilization, much like the mass-forward design of the Foster slug. The fins or rifling are easily deformed to pass through choked shotgun barrels. Extensive tests have shown these fins do not impart any stabilizing spin on the projectile.
Since the Brenneke slug is solid, rather than hollow like the Foster slug, the Brenneke will generally deform less on impact and provide deeper penetration. The sharp shoulder and flat front of the Brenneke mean that its external ballistics restrict it to short range use, as it does not hold velocity well. The Brenneke slug in 12 gauge is well suited for large and dangerous game at close ranges, and deer sized game out to about 50 – 70 yards.
Brenneke slugs in the .410 calibre are useful with smaller game and deer, but usually at a much more reduced range of about 30 – 50 yards. Brenneke slugs are somewhat more accurate than the Foster slugs, but are usually more expensive.
The main characteristic of sabot slugs is the plastic carrier or sabot, which is of bore size or sometimes a little larger to enable the sabot to engage the rifling found in modern slug barrels. The slugs contained in sabots are usually of pistol calibre with hollow points. Although the sabot slug is used primarily in rifled barrels, some designs of sabot slugs can be of use in smoothbore shotguns most notably the Brenneke Rubin Sabot, a sub-calibre slug utilizing the familiar Brenneke attached wad system, and the “Palla Gualbo” again a slug using an attached wad system.
The smaller projectile held within sabots will have a much flatter trajectory, and will travel at much higher velocities than the more traditional foster or rifled slug, which coupled with a rifled slug barrel will increase accuracy and range to near rifle proportion. Another advantage of the sabot type of shotgun slug is no lead comes into contact with the barrel at all, so preventing lead fouling. Which is of course excellent for the slug shooter wishing to use his shotgun for target shooting as well as hunting.
Reprinted by permission courtesy http://www.buckandslug.co.uk/